How inDrive became Pakistan's no.1 ride-hailing app

सारा ख़ब्दीन और जनात, welcome back to another episode of Thought Man and Things आज महासाल मौजूद हैं. तीन बहुत ही ख़ास मेहमान जिनको बुलाने का मकसद यह था कि ride hailing industry has been sort of, you know, heating up in Pakistan for the past few years. But there's been one player, that has come a little late into the game but has been able to just sort of completely take over the market. Personally, I've been very fascinated because, you until a couple of years ago I thought कि बड़ी ही saturated सी industry है. एक model है उस model के ऊपर. कितना ही आप उसको left right कर सकते हैं. So जो earlier doctor या first mover आ गया उसके बाद शायद मुश्किल ही है कि anyone will be able to break into the the industry. But, you know, we were all proven wrong. With us today, we have the in drive team, for Pakistan and the region as well. You know, primarily हमारे पास है Petrov, Afinasé who is the business development manager South Asia. So he's heading the entire South Asian region. We also have with us Hasan Ali Khureshi. He's a senior business development representative for Pakistan, heading the Pakistan operations for inDrive. And we also have Sidra Kiran, is the PR and communications manager for inDrive. Guys, thank you so much for being part of the show. Thank you. Thank you so much. Petrov, I'm gonna start with you just trying to understand a little bit about how inDrive was created, and how old is it. You know, because we've I mean, for for for me and for a lot of other people, it seems like a start up that's just started. It just came out of nowhere, it's all over the place. Tell me a little bit of, of history of inDrive.

Thank you, Muzumel, for invitation to your podcast. I am glad to have a chance to tell about my company. And let's start, yeah. Indra I've created nine nine years ago, but, scheme, has become to the world ten years ago. I have one story about that. I said with my friend that, he's flat and I want to go home. It was like, winter -forty degrees, outside, and it's really tough to use taxi service, local taxi service every winter season increase their price, like, twice, triple times. And, he's told show me the group in social network and tell me that put your address point A, point B, price and your phone number and you immediately will get calls from drivers. And it was amazing when you get a lot of phone calls and yeah, at the same time I agreed with one driver and go away. And after that, Arsene Tomski, our founder, realized that this scheme could be profitable and expanded to all around

the world, and he created inDrive. And so inDrive started nine years ago?

Yes, nine years ago. I mean, that was... So you're not recent. You're very early, I would say. Yes, I realized that's him so earlier because I live in Yakutsk, where inDrive

becomes starting. So that's where it started?

And how many countries is it operational right now in? We currently operate in 47 countries around the world. It's seven plus, 700 plus cities. And, yeah, we cover all most significant macro regions. Interesting. Why haven't we heard about I mean, you guys have been very under the radar. You know, we've we've heard of a lot of other players

who've dominated the media for a very, very long time, and, you know, they've been they've been very aggressive in terms of, just just take talking about the industry, talking about ride hailing and how it's disrupting everything. InDrive, on the other hand, I mean, with 700 cities, that's phenomenal. Right? What's the difference there in terms of, you guys really focusing on the work and and and not doing a lot of, marketing?

I guess it's mostly about our scheme or how it's preferable for passengers and drivers. And scheme is really amazing when you're able to set your own price, bidding option. Yeah. Also, you can choose your own ride driver. Or for driver side, you can choose every ride, you around you. Yeah. It's really amazing scheme when you have a lot of freedom. Talking about the scheme,

there's a difference in the model. Right? Is has that been all always been there? Because for a lot of particularly for cultures in Pakistan, cultures like Pakistan, historically, we have this sort of bargaining culture, this sort of haggle culture. Right? Like, we, we discuss rates, and then we decide whether we wanna go to point a and point b. And I think that was really one of the major sort of selling point for EnDrive in Pakistan as well where instead of the company defining the rates, the consumer and the drivers could really begin to identify what's the right rate where they would go. Has that been... Always been part of inDrive, or was that something that was integrated much later, as a USB of sorts?

Yeah. It's, it's the basic thing in inDrive. It's really inDrive created, around this, option to offer as as you think price. And, yeah, it's from start. It will a little bit have changes during our developing, and now we are the... Have of these options. Makes sense. When did you guys launch in Pakistan? We launched Pakistan one year ago, at January 2021. Right. And what was the thought process? I mean, why Pakistan?

47 countries, that means, I mean, a 191 minus 47. There's still a lot to go, right? What was the thought behind Pakistan? Okay.

To South Asia. Our company came in 2019, and it's really amazing region where live a lot of, people, and here is a lot of issues with transportation, mobility. And we realized that our scheme will be, usable, profitable for, affordable for our, customers, for, for people in these, countries. And then came some tough times with COVID-nineteen. We had a lot of issues where lockdowns created established. But after some time, we realized that in some there is, implemented some policies where we can operate, make some business trips, and after that we, choose Pakistan because Pakistan is, five, high populated countries in the world, and it's really huge market. And we my our colleagues come come here and make some little researches. And they have Islamod, Lahore, Eslamod, Multan. They, to to have conversation with passengers on the street, drivers. And they realize that our scheme will be, very popular here, very suitable, and our product market fit is there because drivers can easily understand our key features, that they can bargain the price, offer their own price, and they can choose the each order. And passenger from passenger side also. And, also, commission rate. We have one of the lowest commission rate in the market, and that's why we decided to come to Pakistan. Makes sense. What other regions of South Asia are you,

you know, currently active in? In South Asia

it's, Pakistan, Nepal, India, Bangladesh. Oh. Four countries. And,

how how are you performing there in all of those reasons? We're expanding everywhere. You're expanding everywhere. I mean, is a tough time right now in, globally in terms of recession and everything. A lot of the companies, when it comes to startups and, you know, companies who are relying on sort of venture capital fund are really, pausing their expansion plans. But you guys are are comfortable that way?

Yes. We see a lot of, issues, economical growth, oil prices going down and going, going up. And our scheme, give, more, like, options for passengers and drivers. They can we have, like, some, freedom to pricing. You can set your own lower price, but driver can then higher price. And our business scheme adapt to current economical situation with fuel prices, etcetera. That's why most of users,

most of people is choosing us. Makes sense. What's the business model here, in terms of I mean, for the consumer and the driver, it's fairly simple, right? You haggle around a price and you go from destination A to destination B. But for for inDrive, what's the business model? How are you making money? And why do you think has there been such a sweep shift in the consumer behavior within, let's say, a market like Pakistan, where we've recently heard, you know, some of the other players pausing their operations and even leaving entirely in some cases. Why do you think you were able to break through that market considering inherently it is the same service in terms of being in the ride hailing industry?

Our business model based on giving access to orders for drivers. If you want to make rides to get the orders, you should top up your balance, and then you will be able to get any order and choose any ride if you want. And after you agreed and come to a passenger point pick application, commission will be deducted from your balance, and you you should keep your balance on positive side. So when the driver is coming in, he's basically putting in a sort of a credit in the start, and then the remaining money he's keeping to himself, and he's basically... The commission is being cut off from the credit that he's putting in the start. Is that correct?

Yes. Correct. And still, our commission is, like, lowest in the market. Right. So and we recently started, like, it's been, like, month or two that we started doing it. Yeah. Because I if I remember this correctly, early on, was just, you know, zero commission. Yeah. Makes sense. And I further like to add one point that, you know, SFNASI ex explained the thing that, you know, our globe South Asia region expansion is going, like, very fabulously. So the reason is that we launched during the COVID. Mhmm. And you as as we all know, many people lost their jobs during the COVID. So that was the plus point as well कि हम लोगों को jobs provide कर रहे थे and obviously we are not charging any commission. So it's kind of an, you know, a worthy thing. And we are and we are as a company, we are happy that we are supporting people in need who need job to, you know, survive that COVID situation in the pandemic. Makes sense. Tell me a little bit about, some of the features that you guys are offering right now. I mean, beyond the,

just the idea of me going to point A to point B and getting a ride, does the app have any other features that would, you know, worth mentioning?

Yeah, for passenger sites, except offering their own price, the key feature is able to choose their own driver. If, for example, if you create the order, you will receive bids from drivers where each driver will offer to you him price because just only driver can understand if this order will be affordable, effective for him at just moments or not, and that's why we use this scheme. And you will see the date of driver, how many rides he done, how his rating is here, how the price, how the car model. And based on this data, you can choose the best option for you. And that's why it's our is our key key features. Also, we have, another features. For example, we can, easily connect with our support team, work twenty four hours, seven days per week. And, during the ride, you we have another options for increase try increasing safety. For example, you can share your current location with your relatives or friends via social networks or messengers. Also, we have emergency button where you can easily get to police. And another one after the right, you can score driver. You can left the feedback, how was gone, and depend on the feedback. It will also, we'll show it for next passenger, and it it will help for, our service and passengers to choose. Makes sense. Yeah.

Recently, we saw that inDrive went from inDriver to inDrive. What was that all about? Because I remember early on, I was very confused in the middle as well, whether it is actually inDriver. And in in fact, I was in, Dubai, and I I looked around and I could see at the time, you know, there was some inDriver, and then there were some inDrive. So what's going on there? Give us some So we recently did the rebranding,

of inDriver from from inDriver to inDrive. तो the idea is that we are, you know, expanding our services globally. Initially, the inDriver is, you know, conceived from the word independent drivers because recent, when it was launched, तो it was the whole idea about कि हर drivers independently इस पर work कर सकता है. But later on when we do the global expansion और जिस तरीके से हमें market में adaptability हमारी बहुत अच्छी थी और सब बिल्कुल according to the, you know, everything is going according to the plan. So that we realize we are just beyond the ride healing services. So then we are going to, you know, that at that time, we realized that we need to do more verticals. See, I mean, we need to add more verticals in our services, and then we did that. In in fact, currently, we have, like, more verticals in Pakistan except in ride hailing services. And, also, now it becomes more like a intrinsic drive that, you know, that keep that keep our people driven and you know, that's our new slogan by the way, the people तो उस चीज़ को लेते हुए we did that thing और यही नहीं सिर्फ़ हमारा, like, vision change हुआ है, हमारा motor change हुआ है. But yeah, our primarily जो हमारा, जो motives था, वह अभी भी same है that we are fighting injustice and we are giving the best prizes in the market and we are doing the extension and we are providing services to the people who need it. So I guess we we try to cater as many people as we can, in the masters. Or recently, like, हमारे पास अभी four when, four verticals है in Pakistan. One is ride healing and one is inner city, cargo and courier. And also globally we have more verticals like masters. जिस कंधा हम लोग घर की services भी provide कर रहे like plumber, everything, electrician or something like that. Makes sense. So at this point in time, just for clarity, it is now officially in drive Yes. All across the world. Yeah. Yep. We actually did, that's a really interesting thing because we did the rebranding, on one day. Like, on October 11 was a day और हमारे जितने groups थे, वह सब flooded थे, सब pictures सारी क्योंकि globally हमारे events चल रहे थे. So 47 countries में, you know, it all happened together. Yeah, it was happened in 27 countries actually क्योंकि हम लोग के regions कुछ बहुत close हैं. Like, African region, we have different regions. We are working in American region, CIS Region, African MENA region and then we have the APAC. So South Asia, Southeast Asia, हर तरफ़ events थे. It was a really exciting day for me as well. क्योंकि I was really glad to see all of those pictures I'm getting from my colleagues, my teammate. And I was like, wow, this is something very incredible and this is a really big thing that and I'm glad that I'm part of that. And it happened all across, you know, was it just like the app name changed or was it a lot more in terms of the marketing? Well, a lot more. Actually, we did the, three sixty marketing campaign parallel to this rebranding thing. And again, that campaign also launched in 27 countries right after our rebranding event. उसके अंदर हम लोगों ने जितने channels home utilize कर सकते हैं, like, we have out of home, we have digital plat we use digital platform, we use, print platform, we use TV channels, YouTube and everything.

You can name it. Makes sense, makes sense. Hasten, you've been quiet for a while. So I'm going to move to you. मुझे यह बताइएगा कि what is your what in your opinion was the reason why you guys were able to, you know, sort of grow so rapidly. And I remember I did a campaign for inDrive, inDriver at the time with inDriveNow. Very early, it was a bike. I took a photo with the bike and, you know, we're going. And उस time, but I was, I'll be honest, I was a little cynical. I was like, I don't know. This is another ride hailing service. Do we need another ride hailing service? And and, again, within that picture, even I remember when I took that photo, you know, we on Instagram, we do a bunch of this sort of, influencer work. That has that that has been one of the most viewed campaign I've ever done. Mhmm. And it was a very randomly done campaign. It wasn't a lot of thought put into it. Mhmm. But that really gave me an insight on just how aggressive your marketing is, particularly when it comes to digital. And and there is definitely a lot of, technical understanding that somehow your teams have because just that one photo of mine I know for a fact Mhmm. Was used to them. You know? Exactly. And that was remarkably done. Yeah. So so what do you think was the major reason? Was it marketing? Was it the product? How did you how were you able to, you know, capture such a large part of the market? And if you are able to give some numbers, I would really like that as well.

Yes, I would love to. First of all, thank you for inviting us, the whole team once again. Explosive growth, would say. That is जो कि हमने witness किया across Pakistan. Actually, मैं आपके एक पहले point पर भी touch करूंगा जो जो कि आपने FNASI से पुछा है कि you guys have been silent since 2012 and और उसके बाद अचानक से क्या हुआ? So this is what actually happened. हमारी जो major expansion that occurred around 2019. 2019 से 2022 onwards we expanded in 40 countries. So within a span of three years that was massive expansion. अच्छा, उससे उससे पहले you guys were really basing it out in In very few countries. Like few countries, seven or something and then we expanded into 40 countries. There are a couple reasons behind that. So generally what we see, ok, startup culture and gig economy, it is something that comes out of the Western world. They are very aggressive in the marketing. They they know how to promote the product. But there are some companies which have been, you know, growing very silently in the Eastern part. So we were kind of that company which had captured this area, to find the right product market fit. And one more thing which I would like to tell the audience here, we see a lot of, new startups. They rely, you know, hugely on VC funds. हमने अभी तक interestingly till this date, we have only raised up until 140,000,000 US dollars. So some numbers for you there. Really? Exactly.

And and having expanded into 47 countries Yep. With just that capital. Exactly. So, I mean, how where's the money coming from?

So that is another disruption maybe in the VC, world as well. So what we have done is mostly is, so there is, like, this three leg process. So basically, startup launch, then there is revenue, and then there is the profit thing. Right? For us, mostly it has been increasing the revenue, generating the profit, and retaining that profit for growth purposes. Otherwise, if there is a lot of VC fund involved in the business, then it is kind of an obligation for a business to go by the conditions. So it is obligatory

that you have to go by the conditions set by the VC funds. So we have been doing it. And you know a lot of that comes with a lot of unsustainable growth and a lot of really quack economics happening there

exactly in a lot of that is what we have seen all around us as well. हमने Pakistan में भी वह चीज़ देखी है कि जब आपकी जो आपकी growth unsustainable होती है and you have to meet the conditions और आप pivot नहीं कर पाते हो and then you run out of the cash and you eventually have to leave the market. So we have been very lean and agile in that manner. So I must say all the credit goes to the top management for having this approach. With that mindset we came to the पाकिस्तानी market where we know it is very price conscious market. हमने Pakistan में launch किया. I was back in Pakistan at that time from The UK after having studied, lived and worked there for eight years. So I was staying in Pakistan. This opportunity came across. I went to the business model and I went to the same questions that you just, you know discussed earlier. Like is there any more space for the ride hailing service in Pakistan? But then I studied a bit of strategy part or strategy side of things. So interestingly ride hailing industry के बारे में मशहूर है कि it is a winner takes it all market. So any one player comes in grabs the largest share और बाकी कुछ players होते हैं वह छोटे share के साथ survive कर रहे होते हैं the market. But interestingly the next step is losers game. So when other players come in as well they also go for the same strategy. They also try to take it all. And then two or three players have big share but low profits. Then it becomes really unsustainable for them. So what they do is then divide and rule part comes into play. So they make a truce. So they, a lot of people see mergers and acquisitions taking place. And then, any other company which is disruptor or a game changer jumps in the market, tweaks a bit with the business model and takes this whole share again, and the winner takes it all, loop repeats again. So I thought this is strategy thing. This is an open source. Anybody can think about the strategy there. So this is what I learned about the industry and I thought that's really interesting. I guess पाकिस्तानी market is ripe for this loop repeating again. So I thought it is a really good time to jump in this industry right and work with it. So we started from Islamabad so I will talk you through now our expansion in Pakistan. So we selected Islamabad as a city because we thought it's a city जहां पर बहुत लोगों के पास mobile penetration है, internet penetration है, infrastructure बहुत अच्छा है, drivers और हमने इसको play out होते हुए देखा भी. When we launch our service भी हमने देखा कि बहुत सारे drivers organically हमारी app download कर रहे हैं and they are making activities. That was quite surprising for us क्योंकि हमारे पास जो information थी from other countries वो ऐसी नहीं थी. हमें बहुत ज़्यादा training करनी पड़ती drivers की. It was a unique model जहां पर अपनी price आपने खुश select करनी है. So that was something really good. Do you think this is because of the fact that other players have created that sort of demand and you were able to capitalize on that? Exactly I would love to come to that point about first mover and last mover advantage there. Yes the market the training was provided to the drivers. Drivers को product का पता था, customers को product का पता था. हम लोग जब move in किए हमारा थोड़ा बहुत model different था उस पर हमने training की and we saw really amazing response in इस्लामाबाद. हमारी strategy initially कुछ और थी we will try it in इस्लामाबाद we will move to the tier two cities then फैसलाबाद, पेशावर, मुल्तान but the amazing response that we got from इस्लामाबाद we decided we are going straight to लाहौर and कराची. We need to capture the market as soon as possible. So that was a roller coaster ride, I must say. All the markets that we went, people really loved the product. Another number that I must quote here from starting from June 2021 up until now, we are the number one app in the app store in terms of download in our category. So this is what public reaction was. And then a lot of processes were involved in it. So our GR department, our legal department, our marketing department, our driver acquisition team, a huge shout out to them. उन्होंने पूरे मुल्क में supply का network बिछाया. नीलाब खट्टक and mister राव they are DA specialists. So they went across the cities, opened the registration offices, provided drivers with necessary training. So we went to different cities, we conducted focus group service, we conducted rides, we have done customer service, telephonic service, you name it. So it was a roller coaster ride. I'm I'm I'm I'm really happy. The whole team, was behind it, and we made a huge success out of it. What does it look like right now in terms of the cities that you're covering? What's the scale in Pakistan?

Tell me a little bit about that.

So we can divide Pakistan into two zones. One, we can talk about the metropolitans or really urbanized, hugely urbanized cities, especially like Islamabad, Lahore and, Karachi. Then we talk about tier two cities, where their population is not that huge. The demand is there but population and potential is not that big. For example, फैसलाबाद, पिशावर, गुजनावाला. And then we have tier three cities or small cities in which we are planning to launch our service. So इसके लिए हमें wait like I I wouldn't say wait but there are other factors that we also have to take into account. So, internet penetration in Pakistan stands close to 36% at the moment और यह 36%

आपको urbanized areas ही में मिलती है. मतलब बहुत skewed at what's around लोहा कराची. It it gets much lesser when you go to like let's say tier two or tier three, right? Exactly exactly.

So a business like us or any digital business, it is very important for us that people have the internet connection with them. So we are hoping with the time when the government or other responsible stakeholders, you know, spread internet throughout the country, those would be the cities that we'll be targeting and enhancing our reach. What's the total number of cities that you're in right now? So we started from Islamabad and within one point five years we launched our service across 12 cities अच्छा. In Pakistan. And, we started with ride hailing, vertical in Pakistan but then we expanded into couriers, intercity and cargo at the moment as well. Very cool. So that means intercity, what does that mean? I can send courier through and drive to लोहौर as well? So, Mhmm. So intercity is to do with ride hailing again. Mhmm. So if you want to go from one city to another city, you can book a cab based on the same business model where you offer your own price and the driver would contact you. If you agree on the same price, you you make the trip. And with the courier, it is more like, you know, if you want to immediately some, send something or courier something to, any of your relatives, friends, you can go into our app, open our courier, mention that is what you want to send, and you'll receive the pits from the drivers. Oh, so that's more intracity,

within Islamabad or within

Exactly. Yep. Exactly.

Okay. What about, in terms of so you mentioned that the customers already had an sort of an understanding of how the model works. There wasn't a lot of training required, really. आपने बस ads technically, as long as there is a download, it was easy for the customer to book there first, right? In terms of recruitment, of drivers, was that as easy as well?

So, that part it was quite easy for the cities which were urbanized again where drivers knew कि product ride hailing service है क्या? कुछ issues हमें इस चीज़ के around आए कि there are some drivers जो कि इस age group से ताल्लुक रखते हैं जो कि technology से इतने आसना नहीं है. It was easy for them for working for other services जहां पर ride quite easily उनके platform पर आ जाती है. They finish it and they end the trip. तो उसके around yes we do feel face some challenges. हम उसके ऊपर काम करें हमारी DA team is very active. They they always keep adding new features in the product, video tutorials to begin with. Our recruiters network is all over the country. They are highly trained. They know how to train the drivers and अभी उसी सिलसिले में हमने कुछ decent project भी इस नवाबाद में launch किया है pit stop का. जहां पर हम अपने drivers को training provide करेंगे. I'm gonna go to सिद्धिरा with that question about the pit stop. Just one question I'd I'd really be interested in

and maybe, you know, Petrov, you can answer that, for me. For in a lot of ways, you know, being in the right handling industry, highly competitive market. You know, Cidra, you mentioned that you guys weren't even taking commissions up until a couple of months ago. And, obviously, in Pakistan, you've expanded to 12 different cities. Right? You didn't also have a lot of VC funding. So how were you able to, be super nifty and and fuel that growth within Pakistan, you know, again, considering you didn't have a lot of cash to burn? It's

part of, I guess, as a result of impact our... One of our backbones of our company, it's, about, decentralization and independency of each, macro region. And we can make own decisions in each when you're launching cities, we can decide how many budgets we can invest for each city. And we can track after launching, we're tracking how it's going, how it's growing, and making decisions every day. And that's helped a lot. We're really excited about Pakistan market, that each city growing well, growing well, and I hope it will continue. And thanks for my team to Hassan. That's helped a lot with our, marketing approach, which, creatives we should use, which

slogans we should directly message to our customers. And it's also helped to reduce our customer acquisition costs a lot. Yeah. Hasan, if if I talk about customer acquisition cost, tell me about how did you guys sort of work around that. You know, were you setting up offices across Pakistan? And, again, what I'm trying to understand is in a of ways, startups in Pakistan, when they came in with a lot of that VC money, it was a lot of flashy stuff. Right? Less work, more flash.

And so how did you guys go about that? Exactly. I I must say it's a really interesting question. बिल्कुल ऐसे होता हमने देखा है. But with this company, with inDrive that we have been working on a very different approach. It was a digital business. It was a tech business. So at this point, I must say, we operate in 47 countries, right? So there is this knowledge base of 47 countries where we learn lessons from other regions and apply in this. So that is one advantage of working for an international company which has, you know, a huge knowledge base. So we had learned from our, you know, experience in other regions that we do really well in the digital domain. So that is where we started off. हमारी customer acquisition जो mainly थी, वह digital channels के across हुई थी, that was Facebook, Instagram and YouTube and same goes for the drivers as well. Although there was a slight variation कि हम drivers के लिए जो content होता था हमारा वह उर्दू language में होता था, roman उर्दू में होता था so that this audience understands that kind of content. We worked really well with the influencer marketing. So we worked with all the influencers that we had, which were suitable for this industry. We reached out to them and that also played a huge role in our growth. Another important factor that we, we have seen playing out really huge on this front was the networking effect, the word-of-mouth thing. So we are a multi sided platform. User, दोनों side के drivers and passengers. The more users this network has, the more value it has. So we have seen that happen a lot. We have seen drivers telling customers there is this new app in the town which has this feature, you can download it and we have seen it from the passengers end as well. So this

was accumulation of all these factors together which kind of propelled and fueled our growth across all the cities in Pakistan. That was a huge success क्योंकि that was a point जहां पर लोगों ने बहुत ज़्यादा लोगों ने shift किया था from other services of जो private हमारी cab services थी, उससे shift करके लोग interact करते हैं. But later on when I joined the company, I got to know that we have a very strong research and development department who has been working aggressively to, you know, promote things digitally mainly.

Makes sense, makes sense. We we spoke about the pit stop earlier. Tell me about that. What's that all about? Just you guys just launched in Islamabad. And I'd also like to know कि are there any any other initiatives that you guys have worked on over the last couple of years? Okay, so the thing is,

at EnDrive we are very, you know, caring and kind of a supportive company. जो हमारा motive है, ठीक है? तो we always stand for the people, we fight in just it and we support societies we are operating in. So हमारे पास definitely different, remarkable projects we've done in the past in Pakistan as well. Since mid twenty twenty two, we are working aggressively and quite actively on those projects. तो सबसे पहले हमारा एक project आया था that's, that's a Begin IT project and that is for the community support, you can say. Like, we support different communities. We have a driver's community, we have passenger community and we have normal community. Like, जो जिस country में भी हम operate कर रहे हैं, so how we can accommodate those people as well. तो Beginning IT का एक project था हमारा जिसके अंदर हम लोगों ने collaboration किया था with the JDC foundation. Apart from that we have this Aurora Tech Award जिसके अंदर we are targeting masses worldwide. लेकिन this is, like, the first time जिसके अंदर हम लोगों ने Pakistan को include किया है then, you know, the women entrepreneur from Pakistan who are in the IT industry, they can participate in that as well और उसके अंदर जो हम लोग like cash prize भी है. Recently we had a web submit in protocol. तो उसके अंदर Pakistan से हमारे यहां से सदा फ़ाबित गई थी. And she's, she's a founder of tech organization circle, जिसके अंदर उन्होंने पाकिस्तानी women की side से participate किया था, to present women in IT industry in Pakistan. और I guess this is, a very good initiative by us क्योंकि we are just showing that people, you know, the females are also very, you know, they have a potential to participate in IT industry और हम लोग के एक segmentation like, some industries are only for the male. But right now, we can see that more and more women coming towards the IT industry. Makes sense. And then what about Pit Stop? Tell me about that. So Pit Stop is, like, is a recently launched project, and it is for the drivers' community mainly. So main motive behind this, you know, main idea behind this split stop is that we are providing a place where, you know, driver can come and get the proper training. And also we have a support system here जहां पर drivers को support करेंगे. हमारी support team है वहां पर already जो कि drivers को उनकी problem होगी कि we are more, you know, inclined towards the passenger. We have a customer support system for the passengers. पर mainly क्या होता है कि बहुत बार drivers की भी कुछ complaints होती हैं and we cannot accommodate them. So for the pet stop we can say कि यहां पर driver can come, they can recharge their cells. वहां पर उनको resting area मिल रहा है, साथ में उनको training भी मिल रही है and then it will eventually help them to improve the services, their services because later on in the line we have some incentives plan for the drivers. जो भी जिनकी performance अच्छी होगी, if they are getting the five star ratings और उनको इस चीज़ की भी tips provide की जाएंगी कि how they can, you know, improve their services. Also, it will be, you know, going to create a good impact on our safety purpose. क्योंकि drivers जब trained होते हैं so they know, like, how they have to behave ethically, कुछ manners होते हैं, what are the border lines they cannot cross with the passengers. Apart from, apart from that, we have some courses planned for this, for for the petrol, for the drivers. And we have this campaign for, like, champions of the month. Like, the champs of the month, we call our drivers attempts. तो जो भी five star ratings, our driver आएगा, so he will be, you know, certified driver. And उनके avatar के अंदर हम लोग are going to, you know, put that star on it. And also we are providing fuel cards, which can, you know, which can accommodate them. Later on, जो vendors होंगे, they're going to win their,

fuel cards. Right. What what is the fuel cards? What's the thought behind that?

So this is very interesting initiative. So we know drivers are are very critical part of our, customer base, right? So drivers and customers both are our users. Pakistan में there is a lot of challenge around the cash flow. Right? So it will help travel in the cash flow management and the fuel management as well. So कोई भी driver who's out there who doesn't have cash to top up the fuel, with the help of our partners we have designed this scheme that drivers would be able to use the fuel credit card which is completely शरीरा compliant and they can go they can fill up their car tank do more rights and then later on they can return that money back to our partners. So we are trying to facilitate the micro entrepreneurs across the industry so that

उनका पैया रोज़ी रोटी का रोके नहीं. Right. So this is this is the project that we have also materialized. Very interesting. मुझे थोड़ा सा यह बताइएगा इसमें एक जो element मेरे दिमाग़ में आता वह आता है digital payments का. You guys haven't integrated that as yet. Mhmm. Right now, all of it is being done by cash. Are you planning on integrating digital payments, credit card payments and stuff like that? Mhmm. And इसमें again within the app credit का element आता है कि जितना for example I'm not sure how that would work but for example अगर मैंने डेढ़ सौ रुपए की मेरी ride है मेरे पास दो सौ रुपए हैं driver के पास पचास रुपए extra नहीं तो वह मेरे ख़्याल एक app पर top up कर देगा आपके credit में. Alright.

As of now यह option नहीं है. हम wallet wallet कहते हैं. हां. So yes, that's very interesting direction to move in basically. हम अभी फ़िलहाल सिर्फ cash ही के option available है to our customers. We are thinking of implementing fintech in our app as well. Pakistan एक ऐसी market है जहां पर हमारी research हमें यह बताती है कि cash is king. Right. ज़्यादा cash चलती है. And even अगर आप globally ride hailing की बात करें तो पैंसठ percent, 65% users deal with cash. Right. So Pakistan being one of those countries as well. So we are actively working on this aspect. We are continuously doing marketing research, trying to gauge customer demand. कुछ factors कारण हमें मिली especially the wallet where you want to add your extra change in the wallet for the next trip. So that is one of the projects that we are working on that and we'll very soon we release that feature. In terms of credit card payments and other fintech payments, we do have that option available to our drivers जो कि वो top up कर सकते हैं fintech के through, easy pass और jazz cash के through but not our customers at the moment. So we are working on it and obviously there are a lot of loopholes in this industry specifically अगर आप Pakistan का case discuss करते हैं. So we have been that company जो की कोशिश करती है कि पहले product के loopholes खत्म कर लिए जाए. Take as much as much time as you can. But once the product is finalized, there are no loopholes or very minimum loopholes, only launch it. So it is also in the pipeline for Pakistan market. हां, considering कि fintech obviously is is,

sure, it's 65% today but then there's there's an evolving world, and that percentage is going to change as well. Then also, I think in Pakistan अगर मैं बात करूं तो historically, yes, cash has been king. But there's a there's a huge movement movement now, particularly with the young demographic that uses a lot of ride hailing. जो कि, you know, with the सादा pays and the नया pays of the world are are really moving towards debit card and and really want that sort of cashless experience.

Do you think you you should be able to facilitate them sometime in the future? I must say it would definitely enhance the value proposition of our brand. हम बिल्कुल करेंगे. At the moment Pakistan में where the figures stand, it's around 20% when it comes to the banking and digitization. So we really hope कि this movement spreads across Pakistan और यह ecosystem develop हो और इसको हम भी supplement कर सकें या complement कर सकें, in other words. So yes, as soon as we receive any valid offer or any good proposal, we definitely consider that. Makes sense. इसी उसमें अगर हम जाएं तो क्योंकि आपने वह जो fuel credit की बात की वह बड़ी मज़े की है because that's also a problem historically that has happened. You know, a lot of these drivers,

would say कि भाई हमें credit पर, you know, digital payment वाली है, credit card वाली हमने वह rights नहीं नहीं ख़ैराक़ में तो है ही cash. दो महीने पहले तक तो मसला नहीं आना था because direct जो जो driver को मिल रहा है, driver का ही तो party चल रही थी with a free ride, right? But now obviously that's going to change with commission and Pakistan में unfortunately we don't have that understanding अभी तक. Historically नहीं थी. There's not tech startup exclusive only. Historically नहीं थी कि यार what's the utility of let's say someone like you connecting those rights? उनको लगता है कि यार यह तो हमारा पैसा मार रहे. You know commission वह चाहे वह in terms of the drivers coming in? Obviously, but, interesting initiative है कि the idea that your primary cost can be turned into credit, is a great incentivization for them to stick to the platform and really say कि, it's not just that we're getting rides through these guys. We're also getting a large part of our operations being managed more efficiently. But then do you face this problem,

in terms of riders or or or drivers saying कि sir आप cancel कर दें और you know आपस में मिल मिलाकर कर लेंगे. So बिल्कुल मज़मूल really interesting point again. I guess दो ही meme worthy points होते हैं इसमें. एक कहां जाना है? Mhmm. Driver always asking कि कहां जाना है? And secondly card दे रहे हैं कि credit है या cash है? So पहले case में तो हमारा मैं यह बताना चाहूंगा कि भी हमारे rivers को point भी पता होता है. So हम यह issue नहीं face करते और दूसरा चूंकि हम cash पर हैं तो driver never ask कि आप credit card पर या आप cash पर हैं. लेकिन to in उस market को target करना जो कि credit card पर payment देना चाहती है especially the consumers या customers side passengers that is one of our goals. उसको लेकर there are very interesting solutions in the market at the moment. There are some other companies which have offered those solutions कि driver जो credit पर right लेता है same day वह अपना credit receive कर ले अपने account में. So there is a lot of innovation especially I must appreciate कि हमारा fintech बहुत तेजी से grow कर रहा है, बड़े innovative solutions लेकर आ रहा so हमने जब ही यह product launch करने की कोशिश की तो we will definitely go with that model so that we facilitate drivers. We give their credit or cash whatever they have made as soon as possible to them ताकि उनकी life cycle या उनका earning cycle पर कोई dent ना आए. So we have those options and what about the commission right? So commission के बाद से

drivers की side से जब अगर for example आता कि यार डेढ़ सौ रुपए उसमें let's say दस रुपए मेरा commission cut रहा है तो मैं

So that वह with maturity and with working with these services over long period of time they have understood कि यार these are the platforms which are providing us the rights and they deserve this money and it's it's their money to run their operations and you know make this platform up up and running for us. हमारा commission चूंकि is one of the lowest in the market. So हमें ये बहुत कम issues face करना पड़ता है. We have done a lot of researches with drivers जहां पर drivers कहते हैं कि यार अगर आपका 10% है, 15% है, we are happy with that. It could it is fine. Obviously आपकी operational costs हैं but if it is extortionist and it is crossing the limits then it doesn't make sense. ये फिर corporate hegemony हो जाती है, you are trying, people are trying to rip us off our money. So we have always tried across all of our markets कि we try to keep our commission as lowest as possible. जिसकी वजह से हमें यह problem बहुत कम face करने को मिलता है. Makes sense.

एक बहुत contentious point है generally across writing एक industry in Pakistan है. And I think before I go into that, I would like to mention this one aspect that Pakistan may be be ever so often miss. It's not just with the ride hailing industry, it's generally any platform industry. चाहे वह e commerce की हो, चाहे वह कोई भी हो. Platforms are there to provide a marketplace, and marketplaces may any and everyone is going to participate, and the problems that that are going to arise are going to be generally driven by, the culture of the industry, right, and the society. And so a lot of the problems that do tend to arise are because, unfortunately, Pakistan में that is how we are. And not just in Pakistan. I mean, the Amazons of the world had so much corruption early days. The easiest way in the longer run how industries have matured has been user feedback that Pakistan and we don't give a lot. We find it to be very useless and tiresome, and and a lot of that user feedback is basically the mechanism that companies use to create the right, you know, sort of fail safe mechanisms to provide a better quality of service. So, element is usually a risk of early adopters, जिसमें they have to be, they have to help in setting up any of the digital sort of marketplace platforms. But having said that, obviously problems do arise and as a company, you have to ensure that the customer is always protected. And so safety has been a major concern, across the industry. But, also, again, within Drive, we've seen those, comments on voice of customer. People have reached out to me as well. So I'd like to ask you, what are you doing in terms of safety and security, particularly when it comes to women, driving in, you know, through inDrive. And, also, I would like to have that understanding of whether you do have an, potential or any potential plans of figuring out women drivers, women exclusive services, because I think there's an incredible demand there as well Mhmm. Both for women drivers and women drivers exclusively servicing women, passengers. That sort of mitigates that entire problem altogether.

Exactly. It's a really crucial, really important point that you have raised. It is very close to me personally, to us as a company and ऐसे problems आते हैं and it's very sad. अगर हम इस issue को देखें तो we can bifurcate that into two things. Is it an industry issue or is it a non industry issue? Or if it is an industry issue, what is industry doing about it? Or what we being a business in this industry are doing about it? So there are certain mechanisms and checks that we have in place, for both passengers and the drivers. So for passengers, I would like to begin with. सबसे पहला is to provide them assurance and satisfaction कि हमारे तमाम drivers के documents verify होते हैं, vet होते हैं. Then geolocation, geotagged. आपकी तमाम rights geotagged होती हैं. We as a company can also see obviously after complying with all the data, regulatory acts. वह आप as a passenger भी you can share it with your family, your friends and that is another layer of safety that we have in that. Apart from that, we keep a record of all the rights and we can retrieve it at any time. So that आपका कोई सामान खो गया या कोई issue arise हुआ है बाद में आप हमसे वह ले सकते हैं. We can provide it to the law enforcement agencies that they can take any action against that. We have a panic button, in app panic button. आप उस button के through 15 को approach कर सकते हैं in Pakistan specifically if any such situation arises. And there is one order at a time and one driver operating one account at a time. Policy as well. तो आप अगर as a passenger you find कि आपका driver वह नहीं है जो कि app app में show हो रहा है. So you don't take that right. I would highly encourage all the users out there through your platform. Don't take that right, cancel that right, leave a complaint against that driver. और another thing which I would really like to stress here is the rating. Marketplace specific rating ही वह indicator है कि indicator है where you would get to know about the other person जो कि marketplace के दूसरी side में बैठा हुआ है. So try and leave an honest feedback so that you are not helping ensuring your own safety, you are ensuring everybody else's security as well and safety as well. And about the drivers, we think about transparency. So drivers being able to see the point b and the location where they are heading. If it is safe for them, if it's a no go area, they can cancel the ride. There would be no penalty and they can also see passengers ratings as well. So, there is this interesting case. मैं आपको यह भी बताना चाहूंगा कि obviously कोई भी network, just marketplace जब ज़्यादा, it's a paradox ज़्यादा users उस पर आऐंगे तो scammers का उतना ही interest उसके अंदर develop हो जाता है कि वहां से कोई loop खोल के through financially they can make money, they can scam people. So we recently busted a racket in Pakistan. Our digital detectors, we call them our team, fraud prevention team. So, they they they found a a group of, people who were using multiple phones and creating fake rides. And after the rides, they were giving five star ratings to those drivers. So our detectives dismantled that racket और उसको लेकर just for the reassurance for the users, I'm putting it out there कि inDrive has recently won a shield trust award that took place in Singapore. It's first of its kind, non commercial, non sponsored. यह वो initiative था कि जिसमें कोई भी brand यह award तब win कर सकता है कि जब उसके mechanisms एक खास safety standards को follow करते हैं और उसके test को pass करते हैं. We have been that company that has won that. We keep continuously consistently working on it but unfortunately again कोई ना कोई loop hole या कोई एक दोवा के हाथ ऐसे हो जाते हैं. जिसके लिए I would like to encourage people के आप जाएं, law enforcement agencies के साथ case put up करें. We as a brand are there to help. We would share each and every information that we have about the either customer or the driver and we'll try to cooperate. यह थी एक bifurcation. What is industry doing about it? दूसरा इसको जिस angle से मैं देखता हूं कि is it really an industry issue या यह हमारी society का issue है? So there is this interesting innovation model called quadruple helix model. In that model is the academia, society, industry and government. They all come together to solve the problems, which are, you know, faced by the society on a larger scale. So I'm I I must say that, this is an issue that we face as a nation. All the relevant stakeholders should come together, should think about it, should build narratives around it and, try to make the society as peaceful as it can get. Makes sense.

उस पर कोई support नहीं मिलती, generic texts होते हैं, customer service का वह नहीं होता. Is there a dedicated helpline for such such issues? And, how do you, when you say कि, you know, we're we're ready to cooperate with the law enforcement agencies, Probably my question is, is it reactive or is it proactive? Difference क्या होगा? अगर कोई complaint receive होती है, proactive approach में यह होगा कि यार क्योंकि customer को genuinely ना more often than not nobody really knows कि उसे को बंदा परेशान होता है और उसको trauma हुआ हुआ होता है. उसको समझ भी नहीं आ रही होती मैंने क्या करना है. And so generally अगर वह company proactive हो तो वह आकर आपको बताएगी कि listen, ok, we understand you're going through this. The next step is, go to your nearest police station, file this this this this. उसका क्या process है? उसका यह process because you know the the process, right? इसका यह process है, यह file करें. जैसे ही वह file होगा तो हमारी तरफ़ से हम जो है ना इन इन चीज़ों पर आपको support कर देंगे. In a lot of ways in Pakistan what I see is that it's not, incidents happen short, happen all over the world. It's the resolution of those incidents are not very sensitive which is why people get tend to be more upset. Yep. इसकी बहुत simple सी मैं साल अगर मैं दूं तो मैं दूं, health care में. Mhmm. Pakistan has one of the, in my opinion, has one of the best health care, systems in the world. Recently I was, I went to get my ear checked. It was closed down and and I've, had someone. I knew someone from Canada. So he he was there. I was like, oh, अच्छा, सब ख़रीदती हैं. I was like, oh, in Canada, you know, which is apparently one of the best health care systems in the world. Was like, my appointment with an ENT is in 2024. Mhmm. So I flew to Pakistan to meet family and then सात महीने सोचा कि मैं अपना appointment भी ले लूं. बराबर बराबर system है. Problem system में क्या आती है? The reason why पाकिस्तान में people have are annoyed by the system is because the doctors are very insensitive in terms of how they approach. So आऐंगे वह आकर आपको ऐसे treat करेंगे as if, you know, you don't know anything और बस आकर आपको बताएंगे यह है मस्ता और, you know, now deal with it. And a very small thing of just being more sensitive with the with the, user considering कि health is very emotional can really change the way that that consumer is is is understanding that entire service, right? Exactly. So in this case, again, I'm not just talking about you. I'm saying कि generally tech के अंदर वह जो sensitivity है of what to do once the problem arises is very complicated. Our people are very reactive. We get scared. हमें होता oh my god, अभी पूरा. It'll become a thing. So how do you guys deal with it? And, how do you think... Can it be dealt with over time, uh-uh, अगर आप improve भी करें तो? Yes,

it's very interesting. I guess आप tech को specifically अगर लेकर बात करें तो we see huge volumes when when a business scales और हम यह भी देखते हैं कि यह बहुत थोड़े time में होता है. So companies come into the market, they launch the product and once it gets traction and stickiness and sometimes things seem out of control, right? So I agree with you on the proactive part that it should be proactive on the part of the company to deal with such sensitive issues. We we keep working on it. Any issue that हमारे surface पर आता है, हमारी support team is dedicated 20 fourseven. They work on these issues. They contact the customer. They guide them about the necessary actions or steps that they have to take. They even contact the law enforcement agencies and go through the whole process. They help them out in registering the FIRs and necessary documentations. So, that being one thing which we are doing and we are still improving that process. It is that thing जिसमें room of improvement, I must say उसकी ceiling नहीं है कोई. When it comes to the quality. Apart from that, we are doing couple of interesting projects as well, इस पूरी ecosystem को build करने के लिए. I'll pass it over to सिद्रा right now. If we can, talk about some of our projects in other countries,

about the safety. Sir, recently we launched this, program in Mexico. We are recommended. Most primarily हमारा focus वही equipment safety. We are more concerned about the women's safety and that's the issue that has been raised, you know, all across the world. तो उसके लिए we made the plan and we just start online training sessions जिसके अंदर जो है अभी तक five episodes release हो चुकी हैं. तो इन episodes we actually mentioning this thing के, you know, before starting the ride. It is for the drivers mainly. So, before starting the ride, you know, उनको क्या क्या safety check करना है? पहले तो जैसे तरीके से सुन already mention कर चुका है. From the passenger perspective के you have to see कि जो driver आया है, वो उसकी picture वही थी, वही car है, वही सब कुछ है. तो you have to make sure कि आप सही गाड़ी पे ride कर रहे हो. That's from the passenger perspective. From the driver perspective, they have to make sure they use the right wording. They must keep the boundary. There is no way to, you know, they can make uncomfortable jokes. तो, you know, a different staring होती है, different kind of that can, you know, kind of feel insecure. Women can feel insecure when, you know, these kind of a thing happen. And as a woman, I can, you know, connect with them in in that level के यह होता है और unfortunately हमारी society में यह होता है. This is, like, very common practice. लेकिन यह है कि in future we are providing training and session and we are hoping that, you know, drivers can be cope with that stuff. Also उनको एक proper, like, draft provide करते हैं कि, like, these are the words that you cannot use और कुछ wording है, किस तरीके से रहना है, behavior body language ऐसी होनी चाहिए and you know you have, you should be limited to yourself. It's not like कि आप उनकी एक personal space में you're just, you know, entering in that personal space या कोई jokes pass करें, comment pass करें या words use करें. That's the major thing and also about the car lock. यह car lock जो है वह सही से proper हुए हुए हैं and they cannot control it. As a passenger, there's a passenger right कि वह उनको देखेंगे कि तब उनको अगर लगता है कि क्योंकि secure है. हमारे पास like, earlier mentioned by हसन कि उसके अंदर हमारे पास push notification. We can send it, to our customer services. उसके अंदर आप directly उनको contact कर सकते हो. We can call directly to the police and also you can share your location while traveling. And this is what I suggested to many girls and my friends and, also the passengers who are using our services. कि make sure करें कि whenever you use the car, you should check the driver first. And also, if it's possible for you, just share your location just for a better safety purpose. And, you know, the point that why we are making those training sessions, definitely we are really hopeful कि in future उससे हमारे ऊपर, मतलब हमारी services के ऊपर काफ़ी positive impact आएगा and women can feel more secure and confident while riding our services. Makes sense.

थोड़ा सा मैं conversation को macro की तरफ़ लेकर जाऊंगा. Just trying to understand, कि Pakistan overall in terms of as a market, I mean, we we do hear a lot of this, कि, you know, fifth largest country in the world, huge youth population. हसन, how do you see Pakistan in terms of the region? Generally company में यह किसमें आता यह? Is it in the South Asian region or the मीना region? आप लोगों के लिए यह किसमें consider होता है? And within that region, what does Pakistan look like as a market?

So we take we put Pakistan into the APAC region, Asia Pacific region for our company. और interestingly यह वह region है जिसकी around 60% population is like 60% of world population lives in this region. So that's that's huge and Pakistan being the fourth largest in this region और यह वह region है interestingly जिसमें ride hailing would see maximum growth. Reason being a lot of people, a lot of people who cannot afford their own vehicles, infrastructure issues. So that is what gives rise to the demand of ride hailing. So we see this region very positively. Our Pakistan as a country in this region for us is is is doing really great. So there is another fact about this region specifically about Pakistan that around sixty percent sixty to 70% of our population being 35 as well. यह हमारे लिए बहुत अच्छी target segment है. यह वह users हैं जो कि millennials हैं, gen z हैं, जिनके पास mobile है, जो कि digitally apps को use कर सकते हैं, ecosystem का part है और इतना पैसा नहीं उनके पास को अपनी गाड़ी फोड़ कर सकें. They they take money from their parents, they are students, they are maybe just graduated and started working on the jobs. So, ride hailing offers them a really good solution. So, Pakistan में again as I mentioned before as well कि internet penetration is 36%, all the mobile penetration is around 85%. So that is another good thing for us as a company to look at Pakistan very positively and keep investing and keep, you know, increasing our services to the other cities as well. As a company, we are really interested towards a पाकिस्तानी society, and we are interested in developing the पाकिस्तानी society.

So हम लोगों का एक project था. We did a CSR project with a collaboration with the JDC Foundation. जिसके अंदर we, that project name is a Big and IT project. We are we collaborated with the JDC Foundation to open the free IT center for students, for under previous students who cannot afford the IT courses. As you know कि IT equipment की cost होती है and then there are, like, software for the coding in java which cannot be afford by every single student. But see there are chances कि जो students underprivileged हैं they have a potential to achieve more to if we are going to, you know, just guide them the right way. So उसके लिए एक specific हम लोगों ने course introduce कराया है. We have this academy and in future we are going to, you know, inshallah we are going to expand it more or in fact that project was actually appreciated by the federal IT minister, mister मीन अल हकवासिया and miss Sahanara. She she doesn't need an introduction. So, yeah, so she was also part of that. And they really, you know, show their interest in that initiative, and they support it. And, like, when we when we were, at the gathering of the found, of the opening ceremony of that, center, we were really glad to see those students. They are really happy, they are excited. In fact, their parents were really excited कि finally platform मतलब उनके बच्चों को the course they are, you know, getting from our, center जो कि most probably they cannot afford it or maybe not in next five years. So, from there we can, know, also guiding them about how they can earn online. So this is it all about and in future we have more advanced courses for those students as well. Makes sense. I think एक जो element mention करने का but I'm interesting है वह एक ride hailing in that I was actually crunching some numbers and over the next decade

there are going to be 10,000,000 new households, added to the Pakistani, economy, as young people are going to sort of get married and and and sort of enter the job market and so on. Whereas if we look at the number of cars, on average Pakistan में ढाई लाख गाड़ियां सालाना आती हैं and that is an economic problem. अब उसको बढ़ा ही नहीं सकते, अब scale कर ही नहीं सकते. So जहां पर ढाई लाख गाड़ियां आपकी सालाना आ रही हैं, वहां पर दस साल में आपकी 2,500,000 गाड़ियां आती हैं, which leaves a deficit of 7,500,000 households, to serve service their transportation needs and therefore it's a no brainer. Yeah. That you need to, optimize just, you know, West में developed economies में जितना होता है. Like, you know, there's a couple of cars in every garage that you use once a day, and they're just standing there. In Pakistan, you need to maximize the utility of an average vehicle that you're bringing out and and are able to service more than just a couple of people in that vehicle. So ride hailing and the growth of ride hailing, I think, is a no brainer for पाकिस्तानी economy. There's absolutely no doubt about it. It's interesting that, you know, I... Personally, I never thought कि Pakistan में the user uptake would be that high. I'm excited कि, thankfully, people have been able to switch, but generally, we're very, not very receptive to change. Petrov, if I were to ask you, I mean, you're looking at things on a regional perspective. If I were to ask you the same question, how do you see Pakistan in the APAC region, as a market? What are your thoughts on that?

Yeah. Regarding our ride hailing markets in Pakistan in terms of the APAC region, it's really we captured one of the leading plays into inDrive, and it's really amazing history for our company. And now I see how it influenced to our work, to our inner our inner processes in terms of product development. There are a few cases where our suggestions take into highest priority when we ask to do something, to add some new features, etc. In terms of marketing, we see that how many how much budget's invested to Pakistan. And in terms of and our other projects, what's mentioned at SIDRA before, our Beginning IT project, it's real. We see that company starting to put more attention in Pakistan market and hope new projects will come to our package. Makes sense.

What are the future plans? Just trying to understand what's the future for inDrive in Pakistan? Are you going to continuously, scale the way that you're scaling right now in terms of product offering as well? Do you guys think you're going to be introducing something new in the future? Yeah. In future, we do have a plan to expand into, like, different cities, like, in more cities.

And right now we are inclined towards those cities, like, the smaller cities where previously no ride hailing service has been launched before. And, also, we are planning to introduce new verticals here in Pakistan. Like, जिस तरीके से अभी mention किया था कि we are already doing that in CIS region. हमारे पास कुछ different, verticals that need to be we are planning to introduce in Pakistan as well. Makes sense.

Generally, you know, what are the future plans for for inDrive? So so basically,

what we did up until now, it was the growth phase for us, right? Mhmm. So we focused on the growth. And, apart from that, growth, say, के, the quality aspect would has kicked in now as well. So service तो हम provide कर रहे हैं. Now we need to make the best service, make it the best service out there. User experience improve करने के लिए. Different features add करने के लिए app में ताकि हम users को एक super app का experience दे सकें. That is a long term plan for पाकिस्तानी market. And and yes, हम बहुत सारे interesting initiatives पर काम करें पाकिस्तानी market के लिए which will be very good for the market and the users.

हम अभी disclose नहीं कर सकते so we'll keep that in the, you know, as a secret as of now. But soon the public public will get there. We do have a plan to target the masses. Yes. Very cool, very cool. This is gonna be my last question, Petrov. If you can just sort of give me an insight on how do you see the ride hailing industry evolving in the future. For a lot of players, they're looking at, cutting down the majority of cost through the drivers and sort of self driving cars. Obviously, that dream seems pretty probable in the first world, maybe not as much in the in the developing world. But in your opinion, how do you see the future of ride hailing industry, overall across the globe?

In terms of APAC region, I totally sure and confident that market will continue to grow rapidly. It's one of the highest populated regions in the world, and also, Pakistan has more youngest populations, and during the next ten years they will become adults. And also, growth, it will all these factors will increase, rate hailing industry usage, utilization of each caps and bikes. And we also will, strongly continue to develop, our business in Pakistan, in South Asia region. In terms of technologies, we also, keep, keep developing it. I guess, as you mentioned, artificial intelligence could highly influence into our business model, but it could be also part of our business model. For example, where we will have some people drivers, we will have some autonomicals, cabs, and they will also try to get orders, send the beats, and passengers will choose everywhere

and every time. Yeah. Makes sense. Makes sense. So you're basically even you're you're taking your same model and letting the passengers decide whether they want to, you know, opt in or opt out. Guys, thank you so much for coming in. This was very, very insightful. I hope to see. I'm excited to see. You know, you you're very clever. You didn't mention some of the future programs, I hope we see them soon. Thank you so much for sharing all the insight. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. It a pleasure. And for all of you guys, thank you so much for watching. अगर आपके episode पसंद है, आप दोस्तियां से ज़रूर share करिएगा. Commerce में आकर मुझे बताएं, have you guys used inDrive? How has your experience been so jazz का या ज़ादा पर आ रहा होगा. If you'd like to support the channel, we accept anything from 1 rupee to as much as you'd like. It's a thought that counts. But anyways, this was सैयद मुज़हबल हसन ज़ेदी. You are watching Thought Behind Things. Thank you so much for watching and I'll see you in the next one.