Brandon Temensky

founder and CEO of SadaPay

Compiled from 1 recorded interview. Every statement below is drawn from the passage cited beside it.

Brandon Temensky is the CEO & founder of SadaPay. Temensky was born and raised in Miami, Florida, in the United States. He describes himself as an introverted, video-game-addicted, nerdy person when he was much younger.

Early life and background

Temensky was born and raised in Miami, Florida, in the United States. He describes himself as an introverted, video-game-addicted, nerdy person when he was much younger. He taught himself basic programming, starting with HTML and later PHP, when he was about 14 or 15 years old. He built a website for his team because every other team online had a website. [1]

Education

Temensky studied economics and marketing at university. He attended part-time over four years, the equivalent of two full-time years. He dropped out of university because he was learning more from running his own businesses. [1]

He says he was somewhere in the middle at school, because he was more excited about what he could teach himself than about what he was learning there. He says he learned through YouTube, by studying blogs and by following different channels. He said an internet marketing textbook could take a year to write, a year to publish and a year to be adopted by the school system. He says he never studied product management. [1]

Early businesses

Temensky built an online business selling Twitter followers. He has said that as a kid he was making about $500 a day. He said he had different online businesses that were already making him money. He was involved in men's skincare and ran a business selling windshield wipers and other automotive aftermarket parts. He also tried to build two real estate technologies, and one of them was privately acquired. [1]

Startup before SadaPay

Temensky described his last startup before SadaPay as kind of like Uber for gas. Customers could request gas and a fuel truck would come to their house overnight while they slept. The startup began as consumer focused and then pivoted toward business customers such as large distributed fleets. He described fleet customers whose vehicles, such as those of police officers and elevator or air conditioning technicians, were taken home every night. [1]

He says he was not doing much software engineering at that point, though his technical background helped him keep up. His focus moved to product design, growth hacking and branding. The startup raised no venture capital, and he and his co-founder put up the initial money. He said he and his co-founder sold the business to their main competitor in Silicon Valley at the end of 2017. [1]

Time in Asia

Temensky described a little mini retirement in which he left the United States and moved to Asia. He lived in Indonesia for about two and a half years. While in Indonesia he was exposed to the super apps of Asia. He says Gojek was a part of his life every day and that he met a lot of people from the Gojek team. While in a co-working space he was trying to understand what he wanted to do next, and he noticed the CTO of Gojek's whole financial services division. [1]

Move to Pakistan

Temensky first came to Pakistan in September 2018. A friend he had met at university and had not seen in many years saw him on Instagram and invited him to visit Pakistan. He found that Pakistani banks had some of the highest pre-tax profit margins in the world. He says Pakistan has the lowest private sector credit to GDP ratio among emerging markets. [1]

He said he thinks Pakistan received only about $10 million in venture capital in 2018 and that over 90 percent of Pakistani adults have a biometric identity. He says a million smartphones were coming online every month. He thought it was a really big opportunity, and says it was around the same time that he was thinking about fintech. [1]

He says he spent about a year understanding the market and meeting as many people as possible, connecting with everybody on LinkedIn. He believes each new connection is an opportunity to get lucky. [1]

SadaPay

Temensky said the license application took about two years. He had expected the Pakistani license to take six to nine months, not two years. He says the commercial license was approved at the end of April and commercial rollout started in May. SadaPay has hundreds of thousands of users but does not publish the exact figure. [1]

The SadaPay waitlist began as an email sign-up form while the company was applying for its license. Temensky says he helped build the original waitlist app. By the time the license was approved in April, over 500,000 people had signed up. SadaPay let people skip the waitlist by inviting friends to sign up, and he says well over a million people signed up, largely because of that growth hack. [1]

Funding, team and equity

Temensky said SadaPay has about 250 employees, about 65 of them in product and engineering. He said SadaPay has raised a total of 20 million US dollars, mostly from US and UK investors, and closed about 7.2 million in its seed round. He said investors later put in much more money at a much higher valuation. [1]

He says every SadaPay offer includes stock. He estimates that about 70 to 80 percent of SadaPay staff hold stock options. He says the stock option pool was 50 percent of the company. When he first came to Pakistan without a co-founder, he put the co-founder's half of the company into the stock option pool. [1]

Licenses and regulation

SadaPay has applied for a digital bank license. Temensky said the central bank had not yet issued any NOCs for digital bank licenses. He says a digital bank license brings the benefits of a bank but also bureaucracy, controls and complexity, and would let SadaPay mobilise deposits and put them to work. He thinks the best use of deposits is extending credit so small businesses can grow. [1]

He says the EMI license is appropriate for a fintech and keeps agility, and that it is less expensive to run because it has fewer compliance requirements. He said that under the EMI license deposits must be kept safe, in custody, in trust accounts, and cannot be moved. He said SadaPay can invest deposits in T-bills but cannot lend them out. He also says credit requires a license, but an EMI can act as a distribution channel. [1]

Products and pricing

Temensky says SadaPay gives accounts for free and charges no fees for bank transfers. He said the SadaPay account limit is 200,000 rupees per month for biometrically verified accounts, and says the limits might end up being increased to maybe 500,000. He says SadaPay earns about 1 percent when a customer spends on a debit card and has many bank partners. He says a rider can be sent to a customer's house so the customer can deposit cash. [1]

He said e-commerce insurance may come included with the SadaPay credit card. He says SadaPay plans to offer the lowest cost exchange rate in the world for rupees. He says SadaPay leans towards international payments rather than local merchants, and wants to serve freelancers well by helping them accept international payments. He said SadaPay is building a business account for freelancers. [1]

Service and design approach

Temensky says SadaPay's transfer success rate is about 99.98 percent. He says SadaPay tries to be more proactive and, if any money is missing, to be on top of it. He says younger customers think in milliseconds and get frustrated by slow apps, and that SadaPay's app feels almost instant when sending a transfer. [1]

He says SadaPay tests whether a first-time user would find each screen intuitive and distils its options into only what users need to know and have. He says the app is in English on purpose and will be localised later. He says SadaPay has put story-style content in its app to guide users through features. [1]

Views on product and strategy

Temensky says he does not like the idea of a super app because people get confused by the idea of building and launching one on day one. He says SadaPay's vision is to be very focused and do a few things really well, and that the app, the wallet, can be imagined as a distribution channel. He says some fintechs are distracted by trying to do too many things at once. He says SadaPay asks of every new build whether it is Sada and simple. [1]

He says SadaPay started with a tech savvy middle income demographic. He believes going from the middle down is smarter and more sustainable than starting at the bottom, and says serving low income customers is hard to make profitable because margins are slim. [1]

He says SadaPay's core competency is incredible engineering. He says banks do not build their own technology, apart from some connectivity between systems, and are heavily reliant on vendors. He says SadaPay no longer pays for bank branches, staff in them or manual processes, and could extend credit at lower rates than banks, including to people banks would not lend to. He says SadaPay's data lets it underwrite customers better and offer lower insurance premiums. [1]

Views on Pakistan and digital payments

Temensky argues that Pakistan has a literacy problem that sets it apart from Indonesia and China. He says Pakistani banking has historically been designed for people who are more sophisticated. He says voice could play a big role in financial services. [1]

Personal life

Temensky says he was a freelancer and has more than 8,000 orders on his Fiverr account. He has visited northern Pakistan, including Skardu, Hunza and Gilgit. He says Pakistanis, at home and abroad, are incredibly patriotic. [1]

Timeline

2018
First came to Pakistan, in September.[1]

Appearances

DateTitleWhere
2022-10-24 The American who saw Pakistan before the VCs did Thought Behind Things

Frequently asked questions

Who is Brandon Temensky?

Brandon Temensky is the CEO and founder of SadaPay. He was born and raised in Miami, Florida, in the United States. He first came to Pakistan in September 2018.[1]

What does Brandon Temensky do?

Brandon Temensky is the CEO and founder of SadaPay. He has said SadaPay gives accounts for free and charges no fees for bank transfers. He has also said SadaPay is building a business account for freelancers.[1]

Where did Brandon Temensky study?

Brandon Temensky studied economics and marketing at university. He attended part-time over four years, the equivalent of two full-time years. He dropped out of university because he was learning more from running his own businesses.[1]

Where is Brandon Temensky from?

Brandon Temensky was born and raised in Miami, Florida, in the United States. He later left the United States and moved to Asia, and lived in Indonesia for about two and a half years.[1]

What company did Brandon Temensky found?

Brandon Temensky is the CEO and founder of SadaPay. His last startup before SadaPay, which he described as kind of like Uber for gas, was sold to its main competitor in Silicon Valley at the end of 2017.[1]

When did Brandon Temensky first come to Pakistan?

Brandon Temensky first came to Pakistan in September 2018. A friend he had met at university saw him on Instagram and invited him to visit Pakistan.[1]

How much funding has SadaPay raised?

Brandon Temensky said SadaPay has raised a total of 20 million US dollars, mostly from US and UK investors. He said it closed about 7.2 million in its seed round.[1]

What is Brandon Temensky's view on super apps?

Brandon Temensky says he does not like the idea of a super app because people get confused by the idea of building and launching one on day one. He says SadaPay's vision is to be very focused and do a few things really well.[1]

References

  1. The American who saw Pakistan before the VCs did . Thought Behind Things , 2022-10-24.
Show the source passages (135 statements)
  1. He is introduced as the CEO and founder of SadaPay. We have with us Brandon Timinsky, who is the CEO and founder of SadaPay.
  2. He was born and raised in Miami, Florida, in the United States. born and raised in Miami, Florida, in the United States.
  3. He describes himself as an introverted, video-game-addicted, nerdy person when he was much younger. I was essentially a really introverted, um, video game addicted, nerdy kind of guy when I was much younger.
  4. He taught himself basic programming, starting with HTML and later PHP. So I taught myself very basic programming, first with um HTML, then then later PHP.
  5. He was about 14 or 15 years old when he first taught himself programming. So I taught myself very basic programming, first with um HTML, then then later PHP. And what year was this? Or rather, how old were you? I was I was I was like 14 or 15 years old.
  6. He built a website for his team because every other team online had a website. I'm I'm going to make a website for my team because every other team online had a website.
  7. He built an online business selling Twitter followers. I built an online business selling Twitter followers.
  8. He has said that as a kid he was making about $500 a day. as a kid, I was making like $500 a day.
  9. He says it is very hard to win back a customer once trust is broken. I think if you fail a customer, it's really hard to get them back once you break that trust.
  10. He says he has always studied growth hacks. So I've always been a student of all these growth hacks.
  11. He studied economics and marketing at university. in university, I studied economics and marketing.
  12. He says he was somewhere in the middle at school because he was more excited about what he could teach himself than about what he was learning there. I was I was somewhat in the middle. Right. Because I wasn't so excited about what I was learning in school. I was a lot more excited about what I could teach myself.
  13. He says he learned through YouTube, by studying blogs and by following different channels. So all YouTube, just studying blogs and following all these different channels.
  14. He said an internet marketing textbook could take a year to write, a year to publish and a year to be adopted by the school system. And in this internet marketing class, you're learning from a textbook and the textbook maybe took a year to write, a year to get published, a year to be adopted by the school system.
  15. He dropped out of university because he was learning more from running his own businesses. I'm just learning so much more by doing business myself and I I dropped out.
  16. He attended university part-time over four years, the equivalent of two full-time years. I was there for the equivalent of two full-time years, but over the course of four years.
  17. He said he had different online businesses that were already making him money. So I had different online businesses that were already making me money.
  18. He says he never studied product management. Never studied product management.
  19. He was involved in men's skincare. I was involved in men's skincare.
  20. He ran a business selling windshield wipers and other automotive aftermarket parts. I had uh a business selling windshield wipers, so automotive aftermarket parts, aftermarket automotive parts.
  21. He tried to build two real estate technologies, and one of them was privately acquired. I tried to build two real estate technologies. One was privately acquired.
  22. He described his last startup before SadaPay as kind of like Uber for gas. fast forward to my last startup before SadaPay. It was kind of like Uber for gas.
  23. He described a startup in which customers could request gas and a fuel truck would come to their house overnight while they slept. you could request gas and a fuel truck would come to your house overnight while you're sleeping.
  24. He said the startup began as consumer focused and then pivoted toward business customers such as large distributed fleets. It started as consumer focused and and then pivoted towards business to business focused, like large distributed fleets.
  25. He described fleet customers whose vehicles, such as those of police officers and elevator or air conditioning technicians, were taken home every night. These policemen would take their cars home every night or the elevator technician or the air conditioning technician, they would take their vehicles home every night
  26. He says he was not doing much software engineering at that point, though his technical background helped him keep up. Well, you know, I I wasn't so much doing software engineering at that point, um but I think the technical background helped me keep up.
  27. He says his focus moved to product design, growth hacking and branding. I pivoted more towards product design and uh growth hacking and branding.
  28. He says the startup raised no venture capital. We didn't raise any venture capital.
  29. He says he and his co-founder put up the initial money. So it was just myself and my co-founder and we we had put up the initial money
  30. He said he and his co-founder sold the business to their main competitor in Silicon Valley at the end of 2017. So we sold the business to our main competitor over in Silicon Valley and that was in the end of 2017.
  31. He described a little mini retirement in which he left the United States and moved to Asia. I thought I'm going to do a little mini retirement and and see where else I can explore. So I I left the United States, moved to Asia.
  32. He lived in Indonesia for about two and a half years. And I was living in Indonesia for about two and a half years.
  33. While in Indonesia he was exposed to the super apps of Asia. And that's where I got the exposure to the super apps of Asia.
  34. He says Gojek was a part of his life every day. And So Gojek was a part of my life every day.
  35. He says he met a lot of people from the Gojek team. And so I met a lot a lot of people from the Gojek team and and that kind of took us to where we are now.
  36. He says he was trying to understand what he wanted to do next while he was in a co-working space. I was trying to understand what I wanted to do next. So I was actually in a co-working space.
  37. He noticed the CTO of Gojek's whole financial services division. I saw John Shepard. He was the CTO of Gojek's whole financial service division.
  38. He first came to Pakistan in September 2018. Well, I came here the first time in September 2018.
  39. He said a friend he had met at university and had not seen in many years saw him on Instagram and invited him to visit Pakistan. I had my friend Atif Afzal. And um I met him back in university, hadn't seen him in many years, but he saw me on Instagram and he said, Brandon, you're on my side of the world. Now you should come visit Pakistan.
  40. He found that Pakistani banks had some of the highest pre-tax profit margins in the world. I learned that the banks in Pakistan have some of the highest pre-tax profit margins in the whole world.
  41. He says Pakistan has the lowest private sector credit to GDP ratio among emerging markets. Pakistan has the lowest private sector credit to GDP ratio out of all the emerging markets and it flips between number one and number two worst.
  42. He said he thinks Pakistan received only about $10 million in venture capital in 2018. Pakistan, I think only had about $10 million in venture capital come into the country in 2018.
  43. He said he thinks over 90 percent of Pakistani adults have a biometric identity. I think it's over 90 or 93% of adults not only have an ID card, but they have a biometric identity.
  44. He says a million smartphones were coming online every month. a million smartphones actually coming online every month
  45. He thought it was a really big opportunity, and says it was around the same time that he was thinking about fintech. I thought, wow, this is a really big opportunity. And it was around the same time that I was thinking about Fintech.
  46. He says he spent about a year understanding the market and meeting as many people as possible, connecting with everybody on LinkedIn. For about a year, I was understanding the market, meeting as many people as possible, connecting with everybody on LinkedIn.
  47. He believes each new connection is an opportunity to get lucky. I believe every time you connect with someone, you meet someone, that's an opportunity to get lucky.
  48. He says the license application took about two years. So we applied, I don't remember the exact date, but it took about two years.
  49. He had expected the Pakistani license to take six to nine months, not two years. So I thought that's what I was getting myself into when we applied for this license in Pakistan. Maybe six months, maybe nine months, but took two years.
  50. He says the commercial license was approved at the end of April and commercial rollout started in May. the commercial license was approved back in um the end, I think it was the end of April of this year. And then we had our commercial rollout start in May of this year.
  51. He says SadaPay has hundreds of thousands of users but does not publish the exact figure. Well, we don't publish that. Right. Um, but it is hundreds of thousands.
  52. The SadaPay waitlist began as an email sign-up form while the company was applying for its license. while we were applying for the license, this funny thing started to happen where people started hearing about us and they went to our website and we just had a email sign up form.
  53. He says he helped build the original waitlist app. The old one, which was the old wait list, which I helped build myself
  54. By the time the license was approved in April, over 500,000 people had signed up. By the time we got our license approved in in April of this year, there was over 500,000 people who had signed up.
  55. SadaPay let people skip the waitlist by inviting friends to sign up. Why don't we let people invite their friends and if they do that, we will reward them by letting them skip the line.
  56. He says well over a million people signed up, largely because of that growth hack. Um, well over a million people had signed up pretty much just because of this growth hack.
  57. He says the waitlist helped SadaPay deliver a high level of service as customers were onboarded. The wait list helped us to make sure we could always deliver a very high level of service.
  58. He says SadaPay spends no money on marketing. We spend no money on marketing.
  59. He says SadaPay does not pay anyone for referrals. we don't pay anybody for referrals.
  60. He says SadaPay put its money into the customer experience and support team instead of marketing. We just invested into the experience, into the call center, into the support team.
  61. He says SadaPay's growth is built on product-led growth. So that's what we've built, focusing on product led growth
  62. He says word of mouth has driven SadaPay's business to where it is today. that word of mouth has driven our whole business to to where it is today
  63. He says he does not like the idea of a super app because people get confused by the idea of building and launching one on day one. Um the reason why I don't like the idea of super app is because people get confused at this idea of being able to build a super app on day one and launch it.
  64. He says SadaPay's vision is to be very focused and do a few things really well. So our vision is to be extremely focused. We want to do just a few things at a time and we want to make sure that those things that we do, we do them really, really well.
  65. He says the app, the wallet, can be imagined as a distribution channel. you can imagine the app, the wallet as a distribution channel.
  66. He says SadaPay asks of every new build whether it is Sada and simple. Whenever we build something, we ask ourselves, is it Sada? Is it simple?
  67. He says SadaPay started with a tech savvy middle income demographic. And we've started first with this, you know, tech savvy middle income demographic.
  68. He believes going from the middle down is smarter and more sustainable than starting at the bottom. I strongly believe it's it's much smarter and much more sustainable to go from the middle down and serve everybody else.
  69. He says serving low income customers is hard to make profitable because margins are slim. if you are serving the low income demographic in financial services, it's really hard to make money because the margins are so slim.
  70. He says SadaPay has about 250 employees, about 65 of them in product and engineering. About 250 employees. And about 65 are in product and engineering.
  71. He said SadaPay has raised a total of 20 million US dollars, mostly from US and UK investors. We've raised a total of 20 million US dollars to date from mostly US and and UK investors.
  72. He said SadaPay closed about 7.2 million in its seed round. we did our seed funding in um 20 was it 2019, 2020, um we closed about 7.2 million
  73. He said investors later put in much more money at a much higher valuation. Um so they invested a lot more money. Um had a much nicer valuation and it was really hard to say no to that.
  74. He said SadaPay closed a funding round in May of the year of the episode. We closed funding in in May of this year, just a few months ago.
  75. He says SadaPay has applied for a digital bank license. Uh so we did apply for the digital bank license.
  76. He said the central bank had not yet issued any NOCs for digital bank licenses. the Central Bank hasn't issued any NOCs for the digital bank license.
  77. He says a digital bank license brings the benefits of a bank but also bureaucracy, controls and complexity. on one hand you get all the benefits of being a digital bank. Um on the other hand, it brings in a lot of bureaucracy and added controls and complexity to your operations.
  78. He says the EMI license is appropriate for a fintech and keeps agility. But the license that we have now, the EMI license, it's really appropriate for a Fintech. You keep a lot of agility.
  79. He says the EMI license is less expensive to run because it has fewer compliance requirements. It's a lot less expensive to run because you have a lot fewer requirements for compliance and government governance.
  80. He said that under the EMI license deposits must be kept safe, in custody, in trust accounts, and cannot be moved. if we're only going to operate under the EMI license, we we're not allowed to move the deposits. We have to keep the deposits safe, in custody, in trust accounts.
  81. He said under the EMI license SadaPay can invest deposits in T-bills but cannot lend them out. we can invest in T-bills if we want to, but we can't lend them out.
  82. He says a digital bank license would let SadaPay mobilise deposits and put them to work. If we transition to a different license, let's say we want to become a digital bank, then we can mobilize those deposits and and put them to work
  83. He thinks the best use of deposits is extending credit so small businesses can grow. I would I would think the best way to make use of that capital is to extend credit, to, you know, help businesses grow faster.
  84. He says Raast is a new instant payment mechanism built by the State Bank. the State Bank has worked really, really hard on this new payment mechanism called Rast. So all of the financial institutions, all of the Fintechs will be able to plug into Rast and it's an instant payment rail.
  85. He says banks do not build their own technology, apart from some connectivity between systems, and are heavily reliant on vendors. Banks do not do not build their own technology. They might build a little bit like the connectivity tissue between systems, but they're so reliant on vendors.
  86. He says SadaPay's core competency is incredible engineering. Um and that is our core competency. So John's core competency, incredible engineering.
  87. He says SadaPay's transfer success rate is about 99.98 percent. Our success rate for transfers is like 99.98%.
  88. He says SadaPay tries to be more proactive and, if any money is missing, to be on top of it. So we try to turn that on its head and see if we can be more proactive. If we if we find any money is missing, we're on top of it.
  89. He says younger customers think in milliseconds and get frustrated by slow apps. For a millennial or Gen Z, we think in milliseconds, right? If a web page takes two or three seconds too long to load, you're going to get frustrated, right?
  90. He says SadaPay's app feels almost instant when sending a transfer. When you send a transfer, it feels like it's almost instant and that's really refreshing.
  91. He says some fintechs are distracted by trying to do too many things at once. They're trying to do too many things at the same time and more features doesn't necessarily equate to better experience.
  92. He says SadaPay leans towards international payments rather than local merchants. We will lean more towards international payments where others might lean more towards serving local merchants.
  93. He says SadaPay wants to serve freelancers well by helping them accept international payments. We love the idea of serving freelancers really well, helping them accept international payments.
  94. He says he was a freelancer and has more than 8,000 orders on his Fiverr account. I was a freelancer. I have over 8,000 orders on my own Fiverr account.
  95. He says SadaPay plans to offer the lowest cost exchange rate in the world for rupees. SadaPay will launch the lowest cost exchange rate in the world for rupees.
  96. He says SadaPay no longer pays for bank branches, staff in them or manual processes. We've gotten rid of all that stuff. We don't have to pay for the bank branches or the people to sit in them or the manual processes.
  97. He says SadaPay could extend credit at lower rates than banks, including to people banks would not lend to. So we could potentially extend credit at a lower rate than any of the banks that exist today and to people who would who banks would never even lend to.
  98. He says SadaPay's data lets it underwrite customers better and offer lower insurance premiums. because we have so much more data than any other institution, we can be more effective at underwriting our customers and have a lower premium.
  99. He said e-commerce insurance may come included with the SadaPay credit card. E-commerce insurance, that that's kind of like included with maybe the the credit card you got from SadaPay.
  100. He says a rider can be sent to a customer's house so the customer can deposit cash. Bykea will send a rider to your house so you can deposit cash.
  101. He said the SadaPay account limit is 200,000 rupees per month for biometrically verified accounts. Today, the limits are 200,000 rupees per month. Okay. Um that's if you have a biometrically verified account.
  102. He says the limits might end up being increased to maybe 500,000. it might end up that the the limits are increased to maybe 500,000.
  103. He says SadaPay gives accounts for free and charges no fees for bank transfers. We give you the account for free. We don't charge you any fees for bank transfers.
  104. He says SadaPay earns about 1 percent when a customer spends on a debit card. So on average, we're we're getting about 1% whenever someone spends money with a debit card, depending on what kind of transaction it is.
  105. He says SadaPay has many bank partners. So we have a lot of bank partners, and we love our bank partners.
  106. He says credit requires a license, but an EMI can act as a distribution channel. Credit does require a license, but EMIs can also be seen as a distribution channel.
  107. He said the central bank does not want sensitive personal data to leave Pakistan. The Central Bank does not want this really sensitive personal data to leave the country.
  108. He said AWS, Google Cloud and Azure are not available in Pakistan. And it's even more difficult because we don't have AWS or Google Cloud or Azure here in Pakistan.
  109. He argues that Pakistan has a literacy problem that sets it apart from Indonesia and China. is actually not like Indonesia or or or China because there is a there is a literacy problem here as well
  110. He says Pakistani banking has historically been designed for people who are more sophisticated. Um banking here has historically been designed for people who are more sophisticated.
  111. He says SadaPay tests whether a first-time user would find each screen intuitive. if someone's using an app like this for the first time, will this be intuitive?
  112. He says SadaPay distils its options into only what users need to know and have. We try to distill all of these options into just what you need to know, just what you need to have, so that we can make that jump
  113. He says SadaPay's app is in English on purpose and will be localised later. So, the app today for SadaPay is in English, and that's intentional. But tomorrow, it will be localized.
  114. He says SadaPay has put story-style content in its app to guide users through features. We put stories in a banking app. So, a user can actually be guided through SadaPay.
  115. He says voice could play a big role in financial services. I could see how voice could play a a big role in financial services, too.
  116. He says everyone in Pakistan will have smartphones and use digital payments. Everybody will have smartphones. Everybody will be connected to the to the internet. Everybody will be using digital payments.
  117. He thinks Pakistan will probably lean into IT exports in a big way. Um I think Pakistan will probably lean into IT export in a really big way.
  118. He says a cashless shift needs the right timing and foundations. you need the right timing. You need the right foundational building blocks for this to actually happen.
  119. He says digital payments reach a tipping point where adoption accelerates. There's a tipping point where it just it just accelerates and then it takes over.
  120. He thinks Pakistan's shift to digital payments starts with young people who shop online. So it all starts with I I think in Pakistan, it's starting with this young demographic of people who want to shop online.
  121. He uses a shop-owner example to argue that merchants will switch to digital payments once customers demand them. So that young person will go right across the street to Chacha number two who just started accepting digital payments.
  122. He cited Retailo as a startup digitising the supply chain for merchants, with merchants starting to use apps to keep track of money owed to them. You see Bazaar, Dastagir, Retailo, Tajer, etc. They're digitizing the supply chain for merchants and they're starting to use apps and to keep track of the money that people owe them.
  123. He says new regulations require any financial institution's QR code in Pakistan to be interoperable. So now, if any financial institution is going to do a QR code in Pakistan, it's going to be interoperable.
  124. He says a merchant can accept QR payments from any app into one account. they will be able to accept a QR payment from any app into that one account that they have.
  125. He said SadaPay is building a business account for freelancers. So maybe it's not a secret anymore, but SadaPay has been building something for freelancers. So we'll launch a business account for them.
  126. He says every SadaPay offer includes stock. Every offer we send includes stock.
  127. He estimates about 70 to 80 percent of SadaPay staff hold stock options. So, I think it's like 70, 75, maybe 80% of people at SadaPay have stock options.
  128. He says SadaPay's stock option pool was 50 percent of the company. So, ours was 50%. So, we were very, very generous and still are very, very generous with ownership in the company.
  129. When he first came to Pakistan without a co-founder, he put the co-founder's half of the company into the stock option pool. when I first came to Pakistan I didn't I didn't really have a co-founder. So, half of the company that would have gone to that co-founder, um, I actually decided to leave in the stock option pool.
  130. He says SadaPay follows a more sustainable model that does not spend heavily on customer acquisition. we we follow a business model that's a lot more sustainable. As I mentioned earlier, we we don't really spend any money on customer acquisition.
  131. He advises job seekers to be wary of startups that spend heavily to acquire customers. if you're considering joining a startup that has this, you know, very strange business model where they're spending so much money to acquire customers, I'd I'd be wary of that.
  132. He says investors value a visible path to profitability. if you do have a strong business and you do have a visible path or line of sight to profitability, investors will be very excited about you.
  133. He says he is optimistic about the venture market in 2023. I'm actually really optimistic about 2023.
  134. He has visited northern Pakistan, including Skardu, Hunza and Gilgit. So, I went to the north. I visited Skardu, Kaplu, um Hunza, Gilgit.
  135. He says Pakistanis, at home and abroad, are incredibly patriotic. Whether you're here or abroad, Pakistanis are incredibly patriotic.